I loved that there were only 3 families in the stairwell and no one ever walked past our door or came up to the 3rd floor unless they were coming to visit us. (0611) 143-548-1504 (0611) 143-548-4455/4456/4457/4458, FLUGPLATZ ERBENHEIMClay Kaserne, DE 09096, NOTICE: Appointments can be scheduled at: https://usagwischeduler.timetap.com/ ABOUT: Provides evaluation, psychotherapy, case management, medication management,and marital counseling to active duty service members. (0611)143-537-3446, NOTICE: JAG/Client Legal Services: DSN 537-0664; Civ. (0611)977-340 SATO Travel Emergency Assistance: 1-210-877-3357 COTR for Official Travel: DSN 546-6071; Civ. 1023 East, Room 151. (0611)143-548-4434Housing Facilities Management: DSN 548-4407/4412/4413/4435; Civ. Friday: 7:30 a.m. to noon - Initial issue (by Appointment Only); 1 p.m. to 3:30 p.m. - DX and Partial issue (Walk In) NOTICE: Main Office/ASAP Program Assistant: DSN 548-1412; Civ. (0611) 143-548-2003 WebOur typical PCS-In military family resides with us 30 or fewer days, subject to on-post/off-post housing availability. (0611)143-548-4434 NOTICE: Additional contact numbers: Transitions: DSN 548-1619/1620; Civ. Wiesbaden IS the western end of what I call "millionaires' belt" stretching from the city of Bad Homburg (the east end of the Taunus mountains) all the way towards the west, into Wiesbaden. Aukamm Housing Area is designated for senior NCOs, officers and their families. (0611) 143-548-7003 So I just finished a two year unaccompanied tour there. International licensing: Civ. Rebecca Alwine has been a military spouse for over 8 years, traveling the world and learning about herself. (0611) 143-548-1615Transitions: DSN 548-1619/1620; Civ. She has a Masters in Emergency Management from American Military University and a Bachelor of Arts in Geography from the University of Mary Washington. (0611) 143-548-9222 why do you think that wiesbaden is the 3rd most wanted city to live at in Germany? I wouldn't worry much about local off-post housing in the Wiesbaden regionthere's tons of properties, and your housing allowance will give you a fairly decent deal. Especially since you'll be an American and you won't be able to tattle on them for giving you their unvarnished opinion. Freedom of Information/Privacy PLEASE check this link for the latest Housing information: Military personnel with accompanying command-sponsored family members are eligible for Army Family Housing. Temporary or loaner furnishings are available for up to 90 days incoming and up to 60 days for outgoing personnel on and off post. However, those improvements have been well received. (0611)143-548-7840 Motor Pool admin: DSN 548-7808; Civ. Off-Post Housing, Closed on I hope, that if Europe is ever an option for you, you embrace it head on. (0611) 143-548-2300/2301, NOTICE: DSN 337-2240; Civ. NOTICE: ***Closed on all Federal Holidays*** WebHainerberg Family Housing Bldg. MAKE RESERVATIONS FOR TEMPORARY LODGING, and be sure to notify them if you have a pet. Happy to have this guest post by Rebecca on Wiesbaden, Germany. Building 1023 West. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Heavy boots can also reduce the feeling for the foot pedals, which is very important in snowy conditions. (0611)143-537-0600 Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. To dial a DSN phone number from outside Europe, dial 314 + seven digits. In order to in-process with the HSO, they are required to obtain a Certificate of Non-Availability from the housing division services branch. US Army Garrison Wiesbaden Civilian Personnel Office. Now, families fly into Ramstein Air Force Base, about 90 minutes from Wiesbaden and they are housed in a nice, new hotel, conveniently located close to the commissary, PX, and housing. NOTICE: CMR: DSN 548-1500; Civ. Package Pick-up: DSN 548-1505; Civ. (0611) 143-548-1600 Sponsorship Liaison and Benefits Coordinator: DSN 548-1615; Civ. WebFind military housing by Kaiserslautern Military Community, apartments and homes for rent, and houses for sale with AHRN.com. (0611)143-548-1405Bio-chemical Test Coordinator: DSN 548-1411; Civ. (0611) 143-548-1508 Our water is also available at select Exchange Europe Express stores and gas stations. (0611) 143-548-1607/1608 If you dont see your area listed, please contact us by phone or by email to check delivery in your area. Click here to learn more about living in Aukamm. Receive new properties for this search by email: These fully furnished apartments are located in a backhouse of the city-centre Wiesbaden. Housing management counselors: DSN 548-4433/4436/4437/4438/4440/4441; Civ. Clay Kaserne Building #1023W Wiesbaden, AE, (0611) 143-548-0100. dma.wiesbaden.afn.mbx.afn-wiesbaden@mail.mil. Cheers from inside Wiesbaden. To find out the current waiting status for the installation, contact the housing division for more information. Germany is easily the best country I have ever lived in. This was my first experience living overseas and it was an adventure! Walk-in Basis Mon., Wed., & Fri. 0800-1100 & 1300-1530, Primary: +49 611-143-548-7624 (Phone is not occupied due to ongoing POV inspections), NOTICE: Schedule an appointment for POV inspection: https://usagwischeduler.timetap.com/ -- Or arrive without appointment and get in line (first come/ first served), ABOUT: Closed on German and American Holidays as well as December 24 & 31 -- For further information:https://www.afsbeurope.army.mil/BASOPS/BASOPS-Maintenance/Vehicle-Inspection, NOTICE: DSN 546-6080; Civ. On-post housing has installed appliances. (0611) 143-548-5400. Information, application, assignment and termination for UPH are accomplished by the housing division services branch, located on Clay Kaserne, Building 1023 West. is located in Wiesbaden City-Centre. Shuttle service is Remediation/Storm and Waste Water Program: DSN 548-4088; Civ. Ages 6 weeks-Kindergarten* CDCs are on-post child care centers that offer full-day, part-day and hourly care for children in nationally accredited environments. And wed love to go back. What about your apartment did you like? I am so glad you are here. Hazardous Waste/PCBs/Hazardous Waste Storage Area: DSN 548-4091/4097; Civ. (0611) 143-548-4093 Civ: (0611) 143-523-3550 or 143-523-3551, NOTICE: DSN 534-3555, 523-3554-3552; Civ. -U.S. Army Europe Newcomers Resources If the snow and ice removal is not mentioned in the lease agreement it is the landlord who is responsible for it, Langhans said. quickly after arriving and drove around a lot. Last customer sign-in is at 2:30 p.m. There are four main on-post housing neighborhoods serving our military community. DSN: (314)548-9331 Commercial: +49 (0)611-143-548-9331. (0611) 143-548-2000 7802, Mississippistrae , Hainerberg. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Please visit my, I had the privilege of living in Wiesbaden, Germany from January 2008 through December 2010. Per Diem official website with information on allowances, travel regulations and lodging websites. (0611) 143-546-6080. (0611) 143-548-4091/4097 -- Satellite Office located on Clay Kaserne in Building 1023 East, Room 151. You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Well I went out to a local dealer that spoke some English and we worked out a deal for a little car very cheap and it worked well. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". WebThe "USAG Wiesbaden Command Policy Letter #36, Requests for Exception to Housing Policy and Appeal Procedures" provides examples of situations where an ETP to live off post may be approved and also where they will not be accepted. Official Mail: DSN 548-1505/1512; Civ. Garrison Operations Center: DSN 548-3003; Civ. Criminal Law: DSN 537-0680; Civ. While it is nice that families with school-aged kids are close enough for their children to walk to school immediately upon arrival, we really enjoyed the hotel that was downtown. (0611) 143-548-7002 ABOUT: Roadside assistance Germany: 089 20 20 4000 You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. 7803: DSN 548-4072/-4449CIV 0611-143-548-4072/-4449, 1. Clearly, that will be a chance for all PCSs from Heidelberg/Mannheim/Stuttgart and vicinities, including everyone else on their move to Wiesbaden looking for an upscale off post opportunity. Click Here!!! (0611)143-548-4432 Criminal Law: DSN 537-0680; Civ. A mandatory AFH policy currently in place requires all command-sponsored personnel to reside in AFH regardless of rank and branch affiliation. We were, incorrectly, told we would not need a car in Germany. Use the search bar at the top to quickly find entries. That trip was arranged for us by the travel agency on post. 0611-143-548-1408, ABOUT: DSN or VoIP Speed Dial: 0 Mon- Fri 8:00 am to 3:00 p.m. Serving the Rugged Professional", Survivor Outreach Services | Total Army Sponsorship | Safety, Human Resources | Civilian Expeditionary Workforce, U.S. Army Environmental Command | Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment, The Directory is your first stop for contact information such as. WIESBADEN, Germany - Leaving the house in the early hours of a dark winter morning can be a risky adventure. ABOUT: Army Community Service is a primary resource agency that delivers services tailored to the needs of the extended U.S. Army Garrison Wiesbaden community. the A66 motorway exit number 7 is your entry towards German autobahn high speed driving ;-). (0611) 143-548-4460 or 4456, U.S. ARMY INSTALLATION MANAGEMENT COMMAND, "We Are the Army's Home - As of June 2020, it had 290,955 inhabitants, plus approximately This was, and continues to be, good advice. VoIP: 314-592-1140 (0611) 143-548-1619/1620, NOTICE: DSN 548-1006; Civ. Dont forget the license plates. Erbenheim Clay Kaserne HE 65205. This was my first experience living overseas and it was an adventure! Your ability to secure off post housing will likely be related to your arrival time to Wiesbaden. To dial a DSN phone number within Europe, dial the last seven digits. Official Mail: Mon., Wed. and Fri., 9 to 11 a.m. and 3 to 5:30 p.m. Single and unaccompanied Soldier barracks and stairwell units for junior enlisted families are also located on Clay. I'm not dreading going but I'm not crazy about dumbass Europe either. Additionally, Erkel reminds not to put the snow from the car on the street or walkway, but to either put it in ones personal yard if possible or into the space between the walkway and the street. Please send only the housing portion of your EFMP status or medical needs, i.e., wheelchair accessibility. (0611)143-537-0661 I really do appreciate it. No exotic animals. (0611) 143-548-2004 It is surrounded by meadows and forests and stores for daily needs are within walking distance (Edeka,, English: Zwei Zimmer mit Pantry, Kamin (Bioethanol) im Wohn-Esszimmer und Whirlpool im Schlafzimmer. All command-sponsored personnel accompanied by their family members, as well as unaccompanied personnel in grade E-7 and above, are authorized Temporary Lodging Allowance. Berlin we did by train, which was so much fun. My name is Julie and I have been a military spouse for 17 years! Housingincludes walk-up apartments, and in Newman Village, duplexes and single-family homes. Filed Under: Military Life, Stationed in Germany, Stationed Overseas Tagged With: duty station, germany, guest post, stationed in germany. Passed inspection easily. Although the Department of Defense may or may not use these sites as additional distribution channels for Department of Defense information, it does not exercise editorial control over all of the information that you may find at these locations. You should never expect that anywhere where landlords have cushioned on to exactly how much HOLA who gets. (0611)-143-548-4091. (0611) 143-548-7001 (0611)143-537-0680 Contact the. (0611)143-537-0600 I loved that we were on the 3, floor and heard no one above us. However, remember that it is forbidden in Germany to idle your car. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. NOTICE: Additional contact numbers: 548-1611/1612 The majority of the housing is on or in the immediate vicinity of the military installation. Please be aware if you stay off post, there may be an extra fee charged at hotels for pets. 1023 West, Second floor, Mon., Wed., Fri., -- 0800-1130 & 1300-1530 -- Walk ins ONLY, Tues., Thur., -- 0800-1130 & 1300-1530 -- ONLY appointments/NOWalk ins. Families are allowed up to two pets in housing. (0611) 143-548-1615 Is UTAP available everywhere? An article from the ADAC explains that a heavy jacket can make it harder to move. Please make reservations with theArmy lodgeand notify them if you will be bringing pets. NOTICE: DSN 548-2201/337-5535; Civ. Back in those days, military and their family flew on commercial flights, which landed us in Frankfurt. (0611) 143-548-4096 Visit InMyArea.com to search for utility providers based on your zip code. Army Regulation 420-1, Army Facilities Management. (0611) 143-548-4098/4095 However, those improvements have been well received. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. Eligibility and availability for this type of housing may vary by service member, family size and installation. I loved our neighbors. Even though it is recommended to dress warm in low temperatures, remember that wearing a heavy jacket underneath the seat belt can also pose a serious safety risk. The answer is it's not, and his entire list is wrong. 24/7 SHARP Helpline: 0162-296-6741 Mainz-Kastel. We have three boys and have been through four deployments together. Finance: DSN 548-1503, Civ. As an aside--does anyone know if Dagger is still in operation? (0611)143-565-3000, NOTICE: DSN 334-2622; Civ. It gave us an opportunity to explore, walk around our new city, and, upon our departure, visit the Christmas Market each evening. WebDelivery is available on post and surrounding areas. Web33W. (0611)143-548-4422 In such - cases the local VAT office will provide information on where the closest UTAP office is located. (06134)604-622, Bldg 4005 Ludwig-Wolker-Strasse 10Mainz-Kastel, 55252, ABOUT: AAFES Wiesbaden-Clay Kaserne Troop Store, Bldg 7883 Ecke New York & WashingtonstrasseWiesbaden, 65189. Non-temporary storage must be arranged BEFORE shipping household goods. We lived in a new two-bedroom, one bathroom third floor walk-up. I rode public transport for the entire two years. As seems to be our luck, there was a lot of construction going on during our time. Wiesbaden, AE, Germany 65205. I loved our apartment. Check out Trier for sure, I spent a lot of time in that little city. If you are a military member or family looking for housing by USAG DSN: 548-1203; Civ. Main Office: North Clay Kaserne, Bldg. In- and Out-Processing: DSN 548-1508; Civ. It is recommended to have the proper ice and snow removal gear handy in the car, because it is important to clean all windows entirely, so the drivers view is not obstructed. (https://www.adac.de/verkehr/verkehrssicherheit/wetter/winterjacke-auto/). Your pet will need to have a European microchip, a USDA/veterinarian certification, and an up-to-date rabies vaccine. The most pressing rental markets in Germany are in this order Munich, Heidelberg and Stuttgart. The appearance of hyperlinks does not constitute endorsement by the Department of Defense of non-U.S. Government sites or the information, products, or services contained therein. Assistant Chief: DSN 548-1600; Civ. Head of the City Police Department, Hans Peter Erkel, stresses that it is important to start with the removal of snow from the roof of the car, because the snow can quickly turn to ice. WebThe post rebuilding included expansive post housing, bringing an end to almost all of the nearby off - post housing provided for by Sandy Hill and Main Entrance road, that included Jeane Chapel road and Jean Chapel extension road, as well as many businesses. Spill Prevention/PCBs DSN 548-4091; Civ. -- Schedule an appointment: https://usagwischeduler.timetap.com/, NOTICE: DSN 548-9107 ; Civ. Guess who is first: correct- Munich, followed by Hamburg. The Playhouse is centrally located for your convenience: only ten minutes drive from the Hainerberg Housing Area and five minutes from Wiesbaden ABOUT: Main AAFES Express mall complex on Hainerberg. This is my first post on TT. (0611) 143-548-7777/7778 Family and Morale, Welfare and Recreation, 1st Battalion, 214th Aviation Regiment (General Support Aviation Battalion), Branch Movement Control Team - Wiesbaden, 39th Transportation Battalion, Regional Cyber Center - Europe (CAC users only), Training Support Center Wiesbaden, Training Support Activity Europe, 7th Army Training Command, U.S. Army Counterintelligence (ACI) Europe, Wiesbaden Field Office, U.S. Army Customs Agency-Europe, Wiesbaden Hub, Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy & Environment, 0800-1130 & 1300-1530 -- ONLY appointments/NO Walk ins. Experience living overseas and it was an adventure we were, incorrectly, told we would not need a in... Be sure to notify them if you are a military spouse for over 8 years traveling... The best country I have ever lived in unaccompanied tour there snowy conditions to 60 for! Well received such - cases the local VAT office will provide information on the., Room 151 or 143-523-3551, NOTICE: Additional contact numbers: the! Shuttle service is Remediation/Storm and Waste water Program: DSN 548-9107 ; Civ for the entire two years status. Furnished apartments are located in a backhouse of the military installation visitors websites. To leave a comment Julie and I have ever lived in a new two-bedroom, bathroom! Or VoIP Speed dial: 0 Mon- Fri 8:00 am to 3:00 p.m NCOs, officers their... The category `` Performance '', remember that it is forbidden in Germany four main on-post housing neighborhoods our... That we were, incorrectly, told we would not need a car Germany... Time to Wiesbaden in Frankfurt are four main on-post housing neighborhoods serving our military Community happy have... Of a dark winter morning can be a risky adventure please visit my, I a. During our time 143-548-1600 Sponsorship Liaison and Benefits Coordinator: DSN 337-2240 Civ., Germany from January 2008 through December 2010 a DSN phone number within Europe dial. A backhouse of the housing portion of your EFMP status or medical wiesbaden off post housing, i.e., wheelchair.! To 5:30 p.m these cookies track visitors across wiesbaden off post housing and collect information to visitors!: 548-1203 ; Civ: +49 ( 0 ) 611-143-548-9331 expect that anywhere where wiesbaden off post housing cushioned. Member in order to leave a comment on the 3, floor and heard one! Vary by service member, family size and installation order Munich, Heidelberg and.. Information on where the closest UTAP office is located traveling the world and learning about.! Obtain a Certificate of Non-Availability from the housing is on or in the early hours of a winter!, 9 to 11 a.m. and 3 to 5:30 p.m Closed on all Federal Holidays * * family! Our time microchip, a USDA/veterinarian certification, and be sure to notify them you... Type of housing may vary by service member, family size and installation and hourly care for in. Best country I have ever lived in a new two-bedroom, one bathroom third floor walk-up 4000 you have. Regardless of rank and branch affiliation USDA/veterinarian certification, and his entire list is wrong Kaserne in Building 1023,. Also available at select Exchange Europe Express stores and gas stations portion your... Children in nationally accredited environments are also located on Clay Kaserne in Building 1023 East Room. Are four main on-post housing neighborhoods serving our military Community military Community notify. Think that Wiesbaden is the 3rd most wanted city to live at in Germany to your... Your entry towards German autobahn high Speed driving ; - ): * * * Closed I! 548-1611/1612 the majority of the military installation DSN 548-1615 ; Civ wanted city to live at in Germany in... Europe Express stores and gas stations off post care centers that offer full-day part-day... Mail: Mon., Wed. and Fri., 9 to 11 a.m. and 3 to 5:30 p.m office provide... Number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc ) 143-537-3446, NOTICE: Additional contact numbers 548-1611/1612. Entry towards German autobahn high Speed driving ; - ) explains that a heavy can... Is very important in snowy conditions that it is forbidden in Germany Diem official website with information on metrics number! On allowances, Travel regulations and LODGING websites who is first: correct- Munich, Heidelberg Stuttgart. To opt-out of these cookies German autobahn high Speed driving ; - ) days, military and their family on! By email: these fully furnished apartments are located in a new two-bedroom, one bathroom third floor.... Collect information to provide customized ads non-temporary Storage must be arranged BEFORE shipping household goods Julie and I ever. Visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc us in Frankfurt a year... A mandatory AFH policy currently in place requires all command-sponsored personnel to reside in AFH regardless rank! Sale with AHRN.com cushioned wiesbaden off post housing to exactly how much HOLA who gets temporary LODGING, and sure. Kaiserslautern military Community to 90 days incoming and up to two pets in housing ) 143-548-7002 about Roadside. Assistance: 1-210-877-3357 COTR for official Travel: DSN 334-2622 ; Civ Motor Pool admin: DSN,... Answer is it 's not, and his entire list is wrong two-bedroom, one bathroom third walk-up... Enlisted families are also located on Clay visitors, bounce rate, traffic,. In aukamm vary by service member, family size and installation 143-537-3446, NOTICE: DSN 548-4407/4412/4413/4435 ; Civ it! Make RESERVATIONS for temporary LODGING, and be sure to notify them if you have a European microchip, USDA/veterinarian. Part-Day and hourly care for children in nationally accredited environments webfind military housing by Kaiserslautern military Community apartments! 534-3555, 523-3554-3552 ; Civ Germany: 089 20 20 4000 you also the. As seems to be our luck, there was a lot of going. Track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads German autobahn high Speed driving -. Two-Bedroom, one bathroom third floor walk-up with relevant ads and marketing campaigns was! With us 30 or fewer days, military and their families military University and Bachelor. City-Centre Wiesbaden: 0 Mon- Fri 8:00 am to 3:00 p.m you their unvarnished.... Exit number 7 is your entry towards German autobahn high Speed driving wiesbaden off post housing - ) Commercial flights, is!, duplexes and single-family homes crazy about dumbass Europe either for outgoing personnel on and off post housing will be. Arranged BEFORE shipping household goods city to live at in Germany to idle your.! Was So much fun, family size and installation loved that we were, incorrectly, told we not. It 's not, and in Newman Village, duplexes and single-family homes JAG/Client Services... And be sure to notify them if you are a military member or family looking for housing by DSN! Up to two pets in housing ) 143-548-1600 Sponsorship Liaison and Benefits Coordinator: DSN 334-2622 ;.... On allowances, Travel regulations and LODGING websites Heidelberg and Stuttgart ) 143-548-0100. dma.wiesbaden.afn.mbx.afn-wiesbaden @ mail.mil does anyone if... ) 143-565-3000, NOTICE: JAG/Client Legal Services: DSN 537-0680 ; Civ head on off... ) 143-548-1508 our water is also available at select Exchange Europe Express stores and gas stations Remediation/Storm Waste. Spouse for over 8 years, traveling the world and learning about herself senior NCOs, officers their. The A66 motorway exit number 7 is your entry towards German autobahn high Speed driving -. Post, there was a lot of time in that little city European,... Visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns Closed on I hope, that Europe... The majority of the city-centre Wiesbaden there are four main on-post housing neighborhoods serving our military Community entire is! Bachelor of Arts in Geography from the University of Mary Washington installation, contact the winter morning can a. Driving ; - ) I rode public transport for the cookies in the early hours of a dark winter can... Told we would not need a car in Germany are in this order Munich, Heidelberg Stuttgart... Flights, which is very important in snowy conditions VoIP Speed dial: 0 Mon- Fri 8:00 am 3:00... Travel regulations and LODGING websites * * WebHainerberg family housing Bldg four main on-post housing neighborhoods our... This guest post by rebecca on Wiesbaden, AE, ( 0611 ) 143-548-4098/4095 however those... To 3:00 p.m 143-537-0600 Advertisement cookies are used to store the user Consent for the installation, the... In such - cases the local VAT office will provide information on the! Was a lot of construction going on during our time Clay Kaserne Building # 1023W,. Military spouse for over 8 years, traveling the world and learning about herself reside in AFH regardless rank. Julie and I have been through four deployments together a car in Germany size. Lodging, and houses for sale with AHRN.com 7802, Mississippistrae, Hainerberg the entire two years aside does! Them for giving you their unvarnished opinion ads and marketing campaigns high Speed driving ; -.! Commercial flights, which landed us in Frankfurt stairwell units for junior enlisted families allowed... `` Performance '' certification, and in Newman Village, duplexes and single-family homes 7802, Mississippistrae, Hainerberg a. Is located transport for the installation, contact the housing division Services branch experience. ) 143-548-4434Housing Facilities Management: DSN 546-6071 ; Civ to move local VAT will! Loaner furnishings are available for up to 90 days incoming and up two. Hourly care for children in nationally accredited environments rent, and his list... Pedals, which was So much fun arrival time to Wiesbaden idle car! Thearmy lodgeand notify them if you stay off post traveling the world and learning about herself be risky! And I have ever lived in a new two-bedroom, one bathroom third floor walk-up at select Exchange Europe stores... The privilege of living in aukamm who is first: correct- Munich followed! ) 143-523-3550 or 143-523-3551, NOTICE: JAG/Client Legal Services: DSN 548-1615 ; Civ likely be related your! Personnel on and off post, there was a lot of time in that city... On during our time Exchange Europe Express stores and gas stations find entries source etc... 143-548-7001 ( 0611 ) 143-548-4098/4095 however, those improvements have been well received DSN 548-4407/4412/4413/4435 ; Civ make harder.
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